Multiple Turrets (Bridge problem e.t.c)

[UNN]

Hi,

This is is a copy of a post I made here:

www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?s=12a2abaaf34185488ecb2470f222a4c6;act=ST;f=54;t=47187;st=45

I started on an example mission, to try and break the problem down further. It does help, and it reveals some unusual behaviour with tides and bridges.

UNN Height Test.Noe

The mission has two radio commands, the first just positions the guns at a constant height of 19.05686. One gun over water, the other over the bridge. Both are affected by the tides. If you increase 19.05686 by a tiny amount to 19.0569, the gun gets positioned to far above the bridge.

So far so good, no surprises here.

But it did occur to me that, it did not matter when I ran the scripts. When the tide was at it's highest or lowest, the gun still appears in the same place. Which is odd, as given the tiny threshold of the bridge position I mentioned above. You would have thought that if the script was run when the tide was at it's highest point, the gun would appear above the bridge. But it does not. So I can only assume the guns position relative to the bridge is decided when Setpos is called. Then another chunk of OFP code decides how the tide effects the position, and ignores the bridge rules?

This is beginning to explain why, when I try to compensate for the tide with SetPos, I start hitting problems. You can see its possible to compensate for the tide by running the second radio option (no need to restart the mission). The gun is steady as a rock.

For the UKF Machine Gun to work, it needs to be positioned roughly 1.44 meters above the ground. In order to do this and compensate for the tide, I end up moving the gun out of the bridge's threshold, and the whole effect is ruined.

Thanks to HateR_Kint and Sa8Geko I have the M1A1 to compare my results. It's gun has to be positioned about 2.25 above the ground, and works perfectly. So I tried to re-position it's gun to 1.44m, as soon as I did that the problem returns. So roughly I now know that anything placed between 1 to 2 meters above a bridge is going to cause problems. I will try and determine the actual figures later.

It may turn out that unfortunately (as far as bridges are concerned) the UKF mg lies in this bad zone. Obviously you cant change the UKF model to reflect the ideal height, that would just look silly? If I change the pivot point of the MG, that will ruin the effect of the gun being attached to the parent vehicle. So really it's up to you guys how\if you want to proceed. For the trailer scripts, you will have to ensure the pivot point is either above or below this threshold, for it to work on bridges. Which might not be so bad, as the trailer is allowed to moved independently from the towing vehicle, and will not really spoil the effect to much.

If anyone can get the MG in my example mission to sit 1.44 meters above the roadway, and remain static please do.

Cheers

[UNN]

sa8gecko said:

Also note that in the 'hshooter.sqf' file there's this line:
if ((position _this select 2) < 2.5 && (position _this select 2) > -1) then
and the 'then' statement is constructed around the 2.25 height the turret normally has above the
M1. So maybe tinkering with these value will fix the land rover too. Also note that the M1A1 would
not work correctly if it enters water, as I did not even take this situation into consideration.

Hi,

Yeah I did try and adjust with M1A1 turret to match the 1.44 of the UKF MG, same problem as the UKF MG.

I can get the UKF MG to sit roughly 1 meter above the bridge, perfectly. But raise in into it's required position (1.44m) then the problem returns.

Cheers

[Sa8Gecko]

Did you tried to put a second 'if' after the first in smokedribs.sqs (or whatever you called it), this way:
_cargo setPos _pos;_cargo setDir ( _dir  );if((_gamel distance _cargo)>.945) then {_pos set [2,(_pos select 2)+(_gamel call hShooter)];_cargo setPos _pos};if((_gamel distance _cargo)>1.2) then {_pos set [2,(_pos select 2)+1.15];_cargo setPos _pos}

I used this to solve the problem with the Abrams being in the water: maybe it can help you too.
Of course the numbers that appear on the above formula are tailored on the M1.
In practice the second 'if' checks if the distance between the
gamelogic and the M2 turret is not right just after the 'setpos'
and if so it corrects to the right height and redo the setpos.

[messiah]

very interesting work guys.

about the WMIK front weapon... there's no real possible way to make this a different height BUT we could go along the lines of making the front weapon belong to the vehicle, and the ring mount weapon being this setpos weapon... that should lie above the bad zone?

as for a trailer... the trailer hitch is about 40cm above the ground, so should be fine.

[UNN]

I used this to solve the problem with the Abrams being in the water: maybe it can help you too.

Yeah, the first distance command is to detect the MG and hull moving apart, the second re-adjusts the height to compensate. I was sure I tested everything you did with the M1A1, even directly changing the value of 2.25 to 1.44 in your M1A1 addon.

about the WMIK front weapon... there's no real possible way to make this a different height BUT we could go along the lines of making the front weapon belong to the vehicle, and the ring mount weapon being this setpos weapon... that should lie above the bad zone?

The other MG would not work as well as the current one, using this method. The curret setup works so well driving over regular terrain, it would be a shame to spoil it for the odd occasion you drive over water. Plus this could all be a non-issue when Armed Assault comes out. I'm experimenting with ways to lock the MG when that problem (and the others you mentioned) occures. To at least, minimize the effect.

as for a trailer... the trailer hitch is about 40cm above the ground, so should be fine.

Thats good news, I would like to use the same idea for Aircraft Carrier plane tugs, if it works out.

Cheers

[h-]

Have you tried using the drop[] particle method to getPos/setPos something on the bridge??
I know, it most likely doesn't help anything since the problem seems to be in the 'water-bridge-setPos' axis...
But just a thought...

Or, if the bridges are configged somewhere, maybe try and camCreate one on land and see if that has the same problem with setPos as well...

Or just force the gunner of the 2nd MG to get in the back when driving on bridges and say it's a safety measure ;D ;D

[UNN]

Have you tried using the drop[] particle method to getPos/setPos something on the bridge??
I know, it most likely doesn't help anything since the problem seems to be in the 'water-bridge-setPos' axis...
But just a thought...

Or, if the bridges are configged somewhere, maybe try and camCreate one on land and see if that has the same problem with setPos as well...

Yeah, you can see a better example with the North bridge. When it's over land, it works ok.

Or just force the gunner of the 2nd MG to get in the back when driving on bridges and say it's a safety measure

That might be the only solution with the current version of OFP, along with some other issues to do with having open cargo slots and AI drivers. But I'll try and get to the point, of having something that covers most of it. Details can be decided later.

[pathy]

Hmmm im abit of a noob but maybe this would work, well, it wouldnt let the gun operate but.....

have a cargo proxy in the gunners seat as on the current version of the WMIKs, fill it with game logic. When you hit a bridge, game logic deleted, player moved into the proxy (ie the front seat), now unoccuplied static MG (i presume thats how your mounting it) hidden, another MG, modelled onto the model itself but initially hidden, appears to replace it.

Doubt its as clever as anything you gurus can come up with but....

[UNN]

Hi,

When you hit a bridge, game logic deleted, player moved into the proxy (ie the front seat), now unoccuplied static MG (i presume thats how your mounting it) hidden, another MG, modelled onto the model itself but initially hidden, appears to replace it.

Yeah, I think that might be the best way of doing it, if you don't mind the MG being disabled over bridges. The other alternative is to again place a dummy gun for display, and hide the proper gun from view. Then you could position the proper gun above the influence of the bride. From the gunners point, the view would shift up when driving over bridges, and other players would see the gun firing above the dummy gun, again only when over the bridge.

Cheers

[pathy]

The dummy gun wouldnt move about either, so youd have a muzzle flash/smoke effects not just above the dummy gun, but to either side of it too. Would look strange, but at least you would have the front gun going over a bridge. IN any case, itd be rare that anyone would even NOTICE, i hardly ever driver over OFP bridges at least.

[Sa8Gecko]

Have you solved your problems, UNN ?
If not, I think I have another solution. Forget the gamelogic,
use a camera (camsettarget, camsetrelpos, camcommit)
and check the distance between the camera, placed on the
right spot the mg should stand, and the mg itself, then correct
if different than a certain value, to be determined (easily).
I used this solution on a plane, which spots a tail gun turret.
The turret stays glued to the plane. Bridges and water
should be no more a problem.
I'll send you more details if you still interested.

[UNN]

Hi,

Have you solved your problems, UNN ?
If not, I think I have another solution. Forget the gamelogic,
use a camera (camsettarget, camsetrelpos, camcommit)
and check the distance between the camera, placed on the
right spot the mg should stand, and the mg itself, then correct
if different than a certain value, to be determined (easily).

I think the problem is down to the setpos command, brides and tides. Getting the position is easy enough, placing the gun at that position, over bridges and water is proving the hard part. I've given up on trying to crack, and will concentrate on hiding it instead.

used this solution on a plane, which spots a tail gun turret.
The turret stays glued to the plane. Bridges and water
should be no more a problem.
I'll send you more details if you still interested.

I did the same on the WW2 Storch's rear gunner. But no roadways there, so I never had to worry about that particular problem. The only problem there, was getting the AI to stop shooting parts of his own plane